The number one indicator of a motivated seller is the physical condition of that property. If you’re paying for marketing

and you can’t answer the phone, you’re kind of wasting money. Usually month like three to four is when

you really start to see a bigger influx of people that are returning from those mailers versus the first month. The one

big pitfall that we see is people who don’t commit to a marketing channel and stick with it. And we’ve done deals that

we weren’t the highest offer, but it was that human connection that went out. Is there one channel in 2025 that you feel

works better than others? Uh, yes. [Music]

Welcome back to the Hybrid Real Estate Professional Podcast, the show where we help you build a life of abundance through real estate and small business

investing without compromising what matters most to you. Today’s guest is Matt Camp, head of partnerships at Deal

Machine, the number one rated mobile app helping investors find offmarket real estate deals. Matt has helped grow Deal

Machine into one of the most widely used tools in the real estate industry with over 10,000 investor deals sourced

through the platform. He is also an active real estate investor himself based in St. Louis. He’s a twotime Inc.

500 startup leader and maybe most impressively a father of three kids under the age of seven. I’ve been

looking forward to this conversation for a long time. So without further ado, let’s get into it. Matt, welcome to the

show. Yeah, Aaron, appreciate the the invite for the show. Great intro there. I know you’ve got three kids yourself as well,

so we can relate on that. But yeah, excited to be here. It’s funny, Matt, I’ve been in probably

40 Zoom calls with you. We’ve been interacting in a we’re in a community together, but one of the things I love about

running a podcast is I can finally It’s easier to get people one-on-one so we can actually have a substantive

conversation despite being in each other’s orbit for a couple years now. This is the first time we’re really sitting down and I’m excited to get to

know you better. Yeah, I was going to say I mean, you’re a fantastic leader within the the RPM community. I’ve gotten to know you

through Coach Carson and everything. So, I yeah, definitely a fan over here as well and appreciate taking some one-on-one time here.

Awesome. Before we jump into, you know, the software and and what Deal Machine is, I would love to just peel things

back on on who you are and kind of how you got into real estate. It seems like you have some experience with startups,

other startups as well. So, give us the overview. Yeah. So the startup besides something

that I came into really was I think college was kind of that that pivotal time of really discovering that I know I

would grew up myself here in St. Louis uh you know always loved sports and figured hey you know what sport you know

I’ve always really enjoyed this it’d be really cool to work for a team or get into kind of the sports marketing world and you know tried that and you know

great experience learned a lot of what I what I didn’t quite want to do at least that that time in life. It’s different

being a employee for a team versus work, you know, actually a fan of one. As I was going through that, I had these side projects with a few friends in college

that were kind of like different tech startup ideas. And uh, you know, mobile was brand new. It was a whole new world

for that for from a platform standpoint that way. And um, found my real passion being these different ideas that we were

working on the side. And fast forward the guys that I was working on that with college doing that as well are actually

one of them is the co-founder of deal machine a guy that so I had been doing you grew up together with him you was

really excited all the projects we did you know kind of growing up that way and then was very excited to to join deal

machine yeah like you said one of those earlier employees there uh you know to help lead partnerships been here almost

5 years now really enjoyed our journey there so it’s yes love real estate the idea and all that but the team that was

working on deal machine was a huge uh you know bonus of what what made me really wanted to join in as well. That

was kind of the the startup side in between that and college. I was at a marketing agency, helped grow that from

a few people to about 100 or so. Had a really awesome journey there. So I’ve had a couple of really exciting startup

experiences at this point. And then real estate, that’s something as well that I know back in high school, I read Rich

Dad Poor Dad and kind of planted that planted that seed in my head of, hey, you know what? Someday, what doesn’t

necessarily have to be my full-time job, but someday I want to get into this real estate thing. It seems like, you know, the the best wealth generating tool out

there. And and so I’ve always had an interest over time, gotten more and more friends into it, and then took the full

deep dive when I joined Deal Machine, like I said, 2020. Awesome. So, which one came first? Did

you start investing in real estate before Deal Machine or did joining Deal Machine prompt you to get into investing?

Yeah, it was joining Deal Machine is what prompted me to get into it. So, it’s something that I it was it’s funny

like this might be relatable for people listening to this, but I had read Rich Poor Dad. I was listening to Bigger

Pockets. I was gathering all this knowledge, listening to things and say, “Hey, someday I should do this. Someday

I should get into this.” and uh you know I just didn’t have any any real focus or initiative or just couldn’t find the

time to really jump into that world. Deal Machine. That was another exciting reason to join is not only was it a

technology I fully believed in, a problem I saw they solved super effectively and fully believed in the

team, but also it was an opportunity for me to do that deep dive into real estate as well. And so I joined Deal Machine,

got became a Deal Machine expert first, really owned that and wanted to nail the day job, you know, the the nineto-ive

there. And then they are extremely encouraging of the team practicing what we preach and using the product ourself

and helping us get out there and go do deals as well. And yeah started with that and then evolved into hey you know

what I need to be doing this myself too not just be the expert in sharing the technology and listening to our customers and sharing what they’re doing

but also talk about my own experiences and yeah it’s been a it’s been a fun deep dive there too.

Very cool. Yeah, you have what I like to call the entrepreneurial itch, which is people who are addicted to the idea,

maybe not addicted, that’s a strong word, but you like the idea of working with companies and growing and scaling

and solving problems. It sounds like, you know, by the other startups you were a part of and then joining Deal Machine

very early on, you’ve also been able to help these companies grow and scale, which is a skill in and of itself.

Finding a product market fit is only part of the problem that businesses try and solve. that scaling, bringing on new

technology and enhancements, growing the teams, like those all come with their own types of challenges. So, I think

it’s really cool that you had multiple other companies to apply that to before you got in your current role, which is

seems that you’ve also been able to grow not only with Deal Machine as a company, but also as an individual investor

alongside. Do you find did you always feel like you had that entrepreneurial inclination?

Yeah, I think I really discovered that. I’ve always been I would say a self-starter in driven in that way like

really even in like in in high school again when I read Rich Poor Dad and everything I I would do fun things like

oh I’d be the one organizing for example had a we had a pickup football league that I literally organized you know

brought together like 60 70 people made teams like organized the whole thing all you know just a self-starter in that way

even just in fun activities I’ve always been uh drawn to that naturally myself I

find that skill set has really applied ti into the business world too, whether it be marketing or sales or partnerships

or like you said the that entrepreneurial niche. I think they’re all interconnected and just something that I’ve been naturally drawn to. And I

feel like I can really relate to our customer there as well too because a lot of our customers are, you know, those entrepreneurs like that where they want

to self-start something or they, you know, want to do this as a side side gig or start their own business within real

estate. Like I it’s something that I I can relate to with a lot of people probably listening to this as well. Yeah. And again, I have a unique lens

because we’re in a community together with Coach Carson and um you know, we’ve been in even some of the smaller groups

within there. And so, I’ve seen some of how you approach your day-to-day as an investor. Like, you’re setting up KPIs

for yourself. You’re trying to get a certain number of offers out, trying to analyze a certain number of deals. It’s

very methodical. I’m sure it wasn’t, you know, dialed in quite that right from the get-go, but over time, it seems like

you’ve been able to iterate and learn from your own product that you’re helping educate people on and create

your own systems that are guiding you. And as someone who, you know, is considering products, I’ve been a

customer of Deal Machine in the past when I was a little more active on offmarket. It’s a lot easier to connect

with someone and take their advice when you know that they’re actually doing the thing that they’re trying to teach you

about. So that again that’s just another thing I’ve always admired about watching you work both in deal machine and as an

investor. Thank you. Yeah I like you said hey we had to take a measured approach and something that that’s the thing I’ve

loved about RPM is it holds you accountable for setting goals and going out there and you know if you say you’re

going to go make this many calls or send this much mail or talk to this many sellers make this many appointment go on this many appointments make this many

offers like you’re measuring that entire sales funnel and yeah what measure what gets measured gets done right. Yeah, I’ve really tried to become intentional

about that. And that’s something I’ve learned over time and also really lucky with my seat here at Deal Machine is I

get to talk to a ton of customers who are successful with it and doing a ton of deals and being able to learn from

them and say, “Hey, you know what? Here’s who I should model myself after.” And yeah, RPM’s been an awesome community to help continue to encourage

that as well. Yeah, it’s good stuff. And as someone who, you know, I think I would had 18

months with Deal Machine, there’s incredible wealth of resources. There’s community. You guys have both like

Facebook groups and ongoing education. I feel like in addition to the software, there’s also a whole ecosystem in there

to support investors, especially everything from brand new all the way to people who are doing dozens of deals per

month. Did were you involved in creating a lot of that education or how did that kind of evolve over time as the company

grew? Yeah. Yeah. So that’s one thing we really realized is hey yeah we can be a tool to make you more successful but in

the end like we want to enable your overall real estate and business success way beyond just using meal machine and

in the end too if you know if you don’t have success within you know real estate or whatever your initiative is like hey

you probably won’t be sticking around with us either like we want to be a tool to help make you more successful and you

know it’s a it’s a win-win partnership there right um we’ve really gone to reinvesting in the company and our

support and our education and gone gone to to big lengths to help our community feel supported in that way. Whether it

be connecting them and helping them do deals together, whe whether it be on ongoing education and learning from

outside experts and just upping their game in real estate in a variety of different ways. And one one big thing

that’s been probably my biggest passion towards that has been our live weekly Wednesday calls. So we have a live

master class that we host every single Wednesday that I help organize, you know, recruit the guests, the topic,

kind of lead the whole conversation. I really enjoy those. It’s something that is cool to see how many wins our

community has and how they talk about, yeah, using Deal Machine as a tool, but in the end, it’s like how they are growing their business and changing

their lives. It’s really cool to see impact and it’s very fulfilling to see how it’s helped them in that way. Like you mentioned at the beginning, we’ve

had over 10,000 clos closing in on 15,000 deals done using Deal Machine at this point. It’s really cool to be able

to kind of take that and and see that happening in real time every single week. So, the master class has probably

been my big passion, but I work closely with the marketing team and they put out a ton of content on social media and our

email, just all the above. It’s hey, we want to help be a support for you. We’re a a DIY tool. We’re not doing it for

you, but we can give you all the tools and knowledge and technology you need to go be successful.

Absolutely. Yeah. I think that ecosystem is very important especially because the kind of nature of what you guys do. It’s

not rocket science but at the same time it is easy to make mistakes or not be able to make the most of leads and so

you guys educate on how to get the best use out of your platform in addition to providing the tech solution but I’m

realizing as we’re having this conversation we haven’t even really described what is deal machine what is your value proposition and who’s your

kind of ideal audience. Yeah. So I’d say high level real estate is a or sorry

deal machine is a real estate data and lead genen platform to help you find offmarket deals. Really our core

customer especially within the real estate niche has been that that investor. We have a good number of

agents that’ll use it too more hybrid you know investor agent but somebody who’s looking to go direct to seller to

go off market and to be able to find somebody who has a problem in their in

their market. somebody who’s looking to get rid of a problem property and help you be the one to engineer a solution

for them. So, we want you to basically use Deal Machine to dig into our data to identify, okay, where are those

opportunities in my market. The mobile app is fantastic for driving for dollars if you’re familiar with that, that

strategy as well. That was really the first thing we were known for and we’ve evolved over time where we have that for

mobile. We have a desktop kind of web version that you can dig into our data and build lists based on our data. uh

list of properties that have highly likely motivated sellers and then we give you tools to actually get in touch

with those individuals whether it be dialer mail, email, all kinds of stuff

there and it’s something that you know we want to do for as low cost as possible as well. I know last year or

about a year and a half ago now we launched our unlimited free skip tracing feature. So it’s our basically including

contact information with every single property inside Deal Machine. So if you save a list of a thousand properties

that used to cost about a hundred bucks to go skip trace all of those now that’s just included free in your subscription

and things like that we’re always looking for how do we innovate how do we help save our customer budget you know

increase their you know return on their investment and then also just continue to push the envelope when it comes to

innovation to make them more and more successful and take less time really inside the tech itself and more time

doing what what really matters which is connecting with sellers and going out and doing deals. Yeah. No, I love it. And I think like

you said, you guys were initially known because that driving for dollars feature is incredible. You’re driving around,

you’re on your phone, you pull up the app, you’re in front of a house that you see that might be a good candidate to reach out to. You can literally, correct

me if I’m wrong, but you can not only save that to your profile, but you can initiate a mailer from there directly

while you’re still in the car. Obviously, drive safely. But, you know, that feature in and of itself is pretty fantastic because I think what happens

when people are getting into this is that there’s all these different tools. They have to go get their skip trace in

one place. They have to go get it completely different different lists from different sources. It’s a bunch of

expensive subscriptions that all start adding up very quickly. And a lot of people are positioned this idea that wholesaling is a great entry point, but

next thing you know, they’ve spent $3,000 on marketing and they don’t have any qualified leads because they weren’t really set up for success and taught how

to manage all these different tools together. So, I think the fact that you guys have this all-in-one solution and

all the education that we talked about before, a beginner could walk in and use nothing but Deal Machine and still be

able to find deals. I can’t think off the top of my head of other platforms that have that all-in-one capability.

And so I think it’s cool how over time you guys have continued to refine and provide that opportunity. The skip

unlimited skip tracing thing, you know, the biggest question I’m sure everyone has had ever since that launched is how

do you verify the quality of data compared to other paid services? Where is it sourced from? So maybe I’ll give

you quick chance to address that. Yeah. Yeah, and one appreciate the shout out and you know being able to share all the kind of words there. We work really

hard at that. So it means a lot. I’ll have to let the team know you said that as well too. But you it’s something like

I’d say one you’re definitely right about that kind of all-in-one approach. It you know we started off as driving

for dollars because that was like the number one problem that we set out to solve that you know the two co-founders

I was mentioning earlier. One of them David Leo he’s our CEO as well. He was going out there a newbie in real estate

and you know had a tech background but would go out and kept hearing driving for dollars. Go out there drive for

dollars. It’s the top way to get a deal as a newbie. Go look for properties that are physically distressed. Build a list

of those and reach out to those owners. And so the first version like you said it’s hey, you know, he was doing that

process. He found great leads because he would drive past the house, write it down, six months later drive past again

and it was getting worked on and it was you know he missed out on the deal but he’s finding the right leads. So he said, “Hey, you know what? Let me make a

technology that can help me in this process to get way better, more efficient, effective at it.” So he went out, made version one of just a driving

for dollars app to go make it really easy to add leads and then one click away send mail and put it on repeat. So

you are getting in front of them, staying top of mind, and then you’re that go-to option when they’re ready to sell. We made that version. That was

their main focus for the first handful of years of deal machine. And then over time realized, hey man, there there is so much more opportunity. like driving

for dollars is the first problem. Yes, it’s a great place to start, but like you said, people want that all-in-one

where you can come and look at, you know, the real estate data and they can come in and build list that way in addition to driving for dollars and then

oh, you know what? Hey, once they have that list, how do they reach out to those folks and oh, they have to pay for skip tracing? Well, the skip tracing

piece, we really made a bet on ourselves saying, hey, if we overd deliver and we go in and really focus on investing in

this part, will that come back? Can we overd deliver to the point that it’s worth it from a word of- mouth standpoint that people are sharing us

out and from a marketing standpoint we get more people coming to us because we are just giving that much value and and

and we knew that it had to be quality skip tracing to pull that off. We couldn’t just offer free skip tracing

and then it’d be terrible and would defeat the whole purpose, right? Like of being able to share it out and really spread via word of mouth and get people

excited about it. And so I know from our standpoint like our data sources we can’t uh you know we don’t share the

specifics but I can say it’s hey it’s a it’s coming from you know we we share this on our launch is coming from the

same data sources that a lot of top banks are trusting on that um you know the 911 call center directory is also

relying on so it’s it’s hey you know we we have really high quality sourcing for that and it showed it in really the

proof of the results from it. So we I couple stats I can share. I know now we have 95% contact match rate for single

family homes nationwide. That’s industry best. We also have I know last quarter

we just did kind of like a deep dive on this. Last quarter people using our dialer which is our skip tracing rate.

Our highest volume callers had like 25 to 29% pickup rate which is over double

the industry average. Like crazy high. So we’ve been really happy about all the metrics we’ve gotten all the

testimonials around that. And like you said, it’s we knew we had to nail the quality if that was going to actually be

pulled off in the way that we’re making that bet. So that’s how we’ve evolved over time in terms of coming becoming that all-in-one, you know, and then

including that in that skip tracing feature there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was a big bet for you guys to make, right? Because

inherently when something is included that used to be costing a lot of money, people are going to be skeptical. And so

it the onus is on you guys to prove that the there’s quality data. And it sounds like since the launch, I remember that

launch event, I was at it. And uh but since then it’s been a while and you guys have enough data to share some of those stats that you just shared and it

seems you know you’ve been able to accomplish what you hoped for with that. And again one less subscription

everything adds up. So by not having to go pay a hundred bucks here 200 bucks there for skip traces over the course of

a year that adds up a lot. And un especially when you’re new and maybe you still, you know, those close rates,

those pickup rates, like how you actually are able to convert these leads into deals, that’s a skill that has to

be built over time. And so the more money you’re putting up front at the beginning, the harder it is to weather

the storm. And what I’ve always heard, cuz I never really got a full offmarket

deal machine going myself. But from what I’ve heard, you know, the first 3 to 6 months can be pretty tough. Like you’re

putting a lot of money out. You might be starting to get leads, but mailers can take three or four touches to start

getting responses. And so, it’s probably really easy for somebody to give up in that, you know, valley of despair. But

that’s where having the tooling and the community support where people can come and probably ask questions to you guys.

Hey, you know, I’m getting nobody’s picking up or I’m not able to, you know, get these people to an appointment or a

showing and you guys can help live coach and provide that feedback on how to get better use. That’s where it all comes

together cuz the tooling by itself, you guys can build the best tool in the world, but if people don’t know how to use it and they don’t build the skills

to actually convert it, then you know ultimately that probably doesn’t work well for either party.

Exactly. Yeah. And I So we actually for that exact reason as well, we have other things that talking about, hey, how do

we reinvest in support and our community and everything? We actually have office hours live four days a week as well. I

don’t know if you ever been on those, but um Ryan Ryan our head of customer success runs those every for Tuesday

through Friday every week and those are phenomenal as well. We get a great group going in and we have a support chat in

the app too, but and plenty of resources on, you know, YouTube and our site and all of that, but being able to talk to

somebody live like this directly to our head of customer success and dig in and screen share and show what you’re

whatever challenge you’re facing, that’s been immensely valuable for people, too. It’s cool you brought up like, hey, yeah, all those things add up in terms

of the cost, especially for a newbie. I one other cool stat I can share. Last year was our first full year of

providing that unlimited free skip tracing. Last year, based on the volume of people that are adding leads and who

would have paid for skip tracing, right? We saved our customers about $19 million in skip tracing, which was amazing.

Just a couple bucks. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So, that was that was really cool to bring that to market and help give that back to our

customers. We have that that going and then you are right though of hey especially if you’re newer you’re like

getting the reps in you’re getting used to this you’re setting up your systems like mail for example we see a spike and

this is my own personal experience as well usually month like three to four is when you really start to see a bigger

influx of people that are returning from those mailers versus the first month and so you’re right there is a little bit of

that kind of pit of despair that you can do things like calling or door knocking or emailing you there’s a lot of other

things you can be doing in that time But um you know direct mail for example that’s one one longer term return on

your investment. So something that can compound and get better and better over time but definitely want to be able to

enable you guys for success both in the short term and long term and and yeah I wanted to share that as well.

Absolutely. Since you have so much data you guys run a company where the entire focus is helping people find deals you

know primarily offmarket. Is there one channel in 2025 as we sit here now that

you feel works better than others? A marketing channel you mean or you know

so it’s funny from a pure data standpoint there’s a couple ways you can approach it. I would say I always try to

educate people like you can think about it as hey do I have a little bit more time on my hands? Can I be more of the

hustler mindset and go out and find leads one at a time but find the highest quality leads in my market or do I have

a little less time and I need to be a little more passive but maybe can commit a little more budget to my marketing. And so think about that first on which

bucket you fall into. Ideally you’re doing a little bit of both of these activities but the hustler would be the

driving for dollars persona, right? Somebody who would go out there and regardless we can give you all the data

in the world. the number one indicator of a motivated seller is the physical condition of that property and you know

so if you’re able to go out there and actually identify those in an effective way we have things like virtual driving

for dollars now AI assisted driving for dollars things like that but being in your market and learning and being out

in the field and doing that and adding properties one at a time like that is going to be a your best least number of

leads to a deal how about that um you that would be kind of the hustler method the list building side there’s a ton I

mean we 700 plus data points you can work with now. We’re always sourcing and adding more. So you’ve got a ton of

options you can do as well where you just jump in and deal machine go on the map put in a city, county or zip code

and then start to filter based on you know all those data points. You can absolutely go that way. But I would say

um you know when you when you do that you know be able to think about and plan out your budget and say hey yeah I’m going to send you know out 100 mailers a

month to this list and I’m going to do this or that and kind of plan ahead. That’s what I That’s really the more the approach that I take is it’s a little

more passive and I’ve got got my day job there too. You’ve got that going as well from a marketing outreach standpoint.

It’s funny. Every marketing channel can work. You can have success with cold calling. You can’t have success with

door knockocking. You can have success with email, with direct mail. You know, you’ve got you can have success with

digital. You hear, you know, there’s always going to be kind of that hot new thing. You know, it goes in cycles as

well. Digital is one I hear often now, too. So there’s always like, you know, a marketing channel that you can kind of

shift around and change your focus on. The one big pitfall that we see is people who don’t commit to a marketing

channel and stick with it. It’s really easy to get that shiny object syndrome and say, “Oh man, I heard about this

today and I want to try that now or and a week later I heard about this, I want to try that now.” And the thing with marketing too is you you hear all those

stats on you know it takes you know five to seven touch points or however many touch points to really get a

statistically higher chance of having a conversation with that person. It is true like it’s something where you need

to get be consistent with people reach out multiple times stay top of mind. We try to teach a playbook of short-term

and long-term marketing to do that of hey have that short-term hustle marketing that’s onetoone and then

combine that with long-term passive you know once a month mailers or email or what have you that combination works

extremely well and happy to talk more about that but I think overall we want to guide you toward hey finding that

marketing strategy sticking with it rather than chasing that shiny object. Yeah. No, this actually parlays very

well into the next topic I was going to cover, which is you can wear your deal machine hat or your investor hat when

you answer this question, but some of what I’ve struggled with when I So, we own rental properties, right? That was

how we started our portfolio, but we bought them rather traditionally. Most of them were either on the MLS or from

an agent that we had worked with before that brought us a pocket listing. So, we were very lucky in that regard, but

there was no real, you know, advanced or high volume outreach or marketing that we did. It was largely just acce

accessing things that were already available on the public market. And when I shifted and I dove into deal machine

and I started gaming out what it would look like to set up a marketing machine,

it was a little overwhelming in the context of my life. You know, you and I mentioned at the top of this episode, we both have three kids. We both have W2

jobs. In your case, yours is real estate adjacent. I’m assuming it’s not it’s not frowned upon for you to be like focusing

on finding deals as part of your job, but for I think a lot of the people listening to this show, it’s difficult

to understand how you could fit something like this into your life if you have a job and a family, especially

because in, you know, just my opinion here, maybe tell me if you agree, if you’re paying for marketing and you

can’t answer the phone and you can’t actually communicate with those leads, you’re wasting money. or at a minimum

you’re going to dilute the effectiveness of all that marketing. And this stuff only really works if you can build the machine with consistent

leads and then actually, you know, convert those leads. So, I’m just curious in the context of somebody who’s

listening who has a job, maybe they have kids, and they have other stuff going on in their life. Can something like this

actually effectively fit into their life or is it going to be a lot more consuming than, you know, um a more

traditional approach? Yeah, I and I appreciate you kind of sharing your own personal experience as well there. And

you are right. Hey, going off market, what I’ll say is that’s where you’re going to find the best deals, you know,

consistently, and that’s where you can really build a ton of momentum and build that that longerterm business a lot in a

lot of ways. But I I definitely don’t want to say that’s the only thing you should be doing. Like agent referrals,

that’s amazing. Definitely make yourself known locally as somebody who’s looking for deals among your friends and family

and real estate agents. And hey, you can be a resource for people. for agents if they can’t list it or if it’s a property

that’s just not in shape to do that. Hey, great. You can be somebody who can fix up the property, right? You can do be an awesome solution for their

problems as well. I’d say like referrals are phenomenal. Like definitely don’t ignore that. To combine them, we’ve done

deals that way too. Like I’ve done deals through referrals, we’ve done deals through Deal Machine. So definitely want to want to say, hey, you have a mix of

marketing here. When it comes to using Deal Machine, I think it does tie back to that time versus money aspect. you

know, if you’re looking for just purely the cheap, you know, the the least cost per deal possible, it would be that

driving for dollars, getting, you know, out in the field, you know, maybe door knocking, you, you know, cold calling

you can do because you have the skip tracing and dialer and deal machine. You can do that really cheaply, but that is more of the grind it out mindset that

way. And so, not everyone can pull that off from a time perspective. The other option you have there is you can set up

really passive passive system where yeah you can always be out in your market and

adding leads through driving for dollars and just have your investor hat on at all times. Look for deals as you’re out in the field. Definitely recommend that.

But you can also go in and pull a list and start marketing literally right now with one click of a button for direct

mail. And you know direct mail has been our number one lead genen channel for me personally for that reason. we’ll go in

and we’ll build a list and I’m happy to dig into, you know, um the variety of things we’re doing there. But when we

actually mail to them, we’ll go out there, we’ll send direct mail, we’ll be consistent with it. So, at least once a

month, we really focus on being creative with our direct mail designs, really standing out and not take ourselves too

seriously, but you know, we’ll we’ll mix in like professional postcards with things that’ll be, you know, my my business partner in that venture is

super creative. So, I’ll let him just, hey, you know what? Let’s get out there. We have one postcard that literally has Bigfoot on the front and says, “We are

searching.” And you flip it over for homes in your area, you know, or to buy houses in your area. So, it’s things

like that that are just eye-catching and different and might, you know, uh might get somebody to at least smile and then

maybe stand out a little bit there. So, when it comes to direct mail, we’ll send out postcards, be consistent with it

that way. And you are right about the call in. You either need to be ready to answer that phone or what we actually

use my my business partner in this is he actually is my role over at call porter.

I don’t know if you know are familiar with those guys. So we’ll use call porter. I know David Leo has used call porter before our CEO.

So we’re a big fan of basically it’s an inbound receptionist for you. So if you send out postcards they’re ready to

answer the phone and and set up an appointment for you and they’ve got access to your calendar. And so, you know, that’s been super super helpful in

just hey, use deal machine to look through the data, to build that list, to actually send the mail, to design the

mail in there, to manage all the mail, and then when the phone calls come in, have caller pick up, answer that call, and set the appointment for you, and

then, you know, actually work the appointment yourself and work the lead from there. That’s how we’ve approached it. Kept it extremely passive. Uh, it’s

not no work, but it’s compared to, you know, door knockocking all day. It’s a good alternative, right? So, yeah.

No, that’s fascinating. So basically like you’re saying the kind of handtohand one-on-one, the door knocking, the cold calling, like that

stuff probably produces a higher percentage result, but the more passive

stuff if you’re willing to build that machine, like you said, maybe have an answering service or someone where

you’re not going to squander that lead. If the person finally calls from the fifth postcard you sent, they can set the appointments. Like you can make it

more passive than it would be, you know, spending eight hours a day driving for dollars and knocking on doors. Did I

understand that correctly? Yeah, exactly. And so the passive route, like I mentioned, is going to take a little more startup capital to set up that

system, but you can the advantage of that is, hey, you’ve got you can have your 9 to5, your W2, and then you can

have that going on the side, right? And hopefully that can fund what you’re setting up there. And then the other side is, hey, you know what? If you’re,

you know, if you’re hustling and you’re looking to just go all in on on taking action and going, you need to stay as

budget conscious as possible, then hey, you know what? Just go the more the hustle route until you can build up to to include the passive stuff.

Yeah. No, that’s a really I’m glad we’re having this conversation because I think a lot of the times there’s a couple

things that happen. One is it gets sold this idea of wholesaling as a easy entry point that you know, okay, I’ll just

start doing that and I’ll start make getting $10,000 assignment fees. I don’t think that’s true. There’s obviously a

lot behind that. You need to be methodical. You need to have the right tools and the right skills and education. And the other thing is that

people, you know, maybe assume that they can make it fully passive and just let me write a check and everyone will do

all the work for me. And even if that was true, it still involves you going and building the relationships, either

hiring a service like Callporter or hiring an employee, you know, someone that works inhouse for you that has those skills and has the

time. And so I think, you know, just my precaution always when I talk to people

is they get convinced that it’s easier than it actually is. But I don’t know. So that’s when I always get a little bit

hesitant when I start talking about offmarket, especially with someone brand new. Do you think that, you know, is

there a better way to kind of position this to a new investor who’s, oh, let me just go start wholesaling and I’ll, you

know, start making 10 grand a month and I’ll turn it into flips and I’ll turn it into rentals. And they kind of have this idyllic approach to it.

Yeah. I think one, you are right about building the relationships like that has been regardless across the board the key

for especially my personal real estate investing. I’ve got mentors like Coach Carson. I’ve got local mentors. I’ve got

a business partner there that we hold each other accountable. The guy over at call Porter Vince is his name. Awesome

guy. He should have him on at some point, too. But yeah, there, you know, that that whole network that I’ve built out and with the Deal Machine community

and with folks like yourself, I’m definitely in a spot to be able to network with people very effectively and

I’m really lucky with that where I’ve can be, you know, using uh Deal Machine to to continue to further my knowledge,

have a tool to be successful and have a great network there. But we do really try hard to be able to have everybody

who’s using Deal Machine get invited to these live calls and have all these resources at their hands to to go and

educate themselves and connect with others and find mentors and do deals together and things like that. So, they’re very much that’s a big part of

it, the relationship side, but in general, yeah, we don’t want it to seem, and you’re right, like we really try to

stay away from kind of the the get-richqu, you know, uh, messaging out there because we really want you guys to say, “Hey, we’re giving you technology

and access to data and marketing and these things that used to be crazy expensive or not even possible that now

technology can give you in literally in your hand. It’s just a matter of you running with that. And so, we want to

give you that playbook on how to do that. We want you to be successful with the tool and make it again as time

efficient and costefficient as possible, but still know that hey, it’s up to you to run with that and to really make it

happen yourself, too. So, we it’s a combination of, hey, giving you that ability to go out and put in the work

and give you that playbook on knowing what to do, but in the end, hold yourself accountable as well on that front. And I do love that about RPM,

like I mentioned, is helps you hold yourself accountable, right? Yeah, absolutely. And yes, I’d love to have your partner on on the show, too.

That sounds like a heck of a partnership you guys have because you’re addressing two of the biggest pain points. One is

finding the deals and the second is servicing those leads, right? Yeah. No, this has been a really helpful I think

big picture conversation and also understanding of the tooling. I have one more question on tactically. So, I’ve

seen a lot of people booting up or at least trying to experiment with this AI

agent type stuff, whether it’s for texting or even I’ve heard some demos of

call answering services where it’s an AI AI having a conversation with a potential seller, not trying to close

the deal or do anything advanced, but like basically functioning in that callorter style where when the phone

rings, they pick up, hello, who is this, and they can gather information and then at least set up for a call back. Are you

guys dabbling in that at all or how do you feel about that overall? Yeah, so I’ll say one I love like people

embracing new technology. You’re right. AI is the fastest growing technology ever created and like chat GPT got to a

million users faster than anything else ever, you know, from a tech standpoint ever out there. Absolutely. It’s

something that I would not say, hey, don’t I want you to embrace it. I want you to figure, you know, be always using it as a super productivity tool. I’d be

wary on completely replacing yourself with it in terms of different functions. I would again I would approach it as

that super productivity tool but I still think a human touch is a massive advantage if you can hone that skill and

maybe even more so if technology is becoming a commodity then hey you know what the human element is what’s going

to make you different right I think that you know we have implemented AI in a variety of ways inside deal machine it’s

within our list builder to help you do things like have AI analyze different property the property data even the

visual of the property it’ll look at street view images and satellite images and tell you hey based on these images.

It’s a it’s a if it is a distressed property. So, it’s essentially AI driving for dollars for you. So, we’re

we’re embracing it there. We’re embracing it within our dialer where it’ll literally aid you in the conversation. Not replace you, but aid

you and tell you, hey, you know what? Based on where you’re at in the conversation, go this way or that way or try this or try that and it’ll give you

prompts as you’re talking to the seller, which is pretty amazing. And then it’ll even do things you know on on the kind

of the the you know the other side of it in terms of running numbers analyzing the deal you know giving you you know

ways to to reach out to the seller like giving you thoughts there as well. So we’ve built AI in as a super productivity c tool across the board. We

definitely have explored it for calling and we’re always trying to assess like how you know how how effective is it at

that. I’ll say that whole area there’s a lot there’s a lot of gray area in in using AI for especially like outbound

calling. That’s something that we yeah don’t really want to touch there because from a gray area standpoint um you know

from and from a compliance standpoint I I know the AI as well for inbound call

receiving. That’s something that I know I’ve had conversations with call porter. They’re always analyzing that and comparing a human versus AI there. And

yeah, you can it can get the job done in some ways but in other ways not so much. at least not yet. And so it’s something

we’re always assessing, always figuring out how can we really get you the super productivity tool. When is it ready to

go to market in a cheap enough rate like the AI analysis of the visuals of the property? That’s something we’ve had

that idea forever, but now it’s finally effective enough and cheap enough to be able to offer it in deal machine. So

we’re always, you know, assessing that and have a list of ideas on things we could be doing. But yeah, I’d say

overall it’s like embrace it as a super productivity tool, not as a complete replacement. I am very aligned with you

on that. I think using AI as the front line to actually communicate verbally is

maybe a little a step further than I’m ready to take right now. I wouldn’t probably appreciate if I sensed that I

was talking to a robot when somebody took the time to market to me and reach out because the human

connection is probably what really closes the most deals is when you can really empathize and understand that person and figure out what problem are

they trying to solve and how can you help solve it. I don’t think a robot can quite figure that out yet. But I really

like what you said where it can work well as a coaching tool, whether it’s live coaching on a call or what I use a

lot is I take transcripts from all the calls that I do, whether it’s a sales call or a coaching call or whatever, and

I analyze I go back and forth usually with Chad GPT and just say, “Hey, what could I have done better? What type of

insights?” I I like that self-coaching element of AI. And then I love what you

said too about the analyzing the visuals of a property too. I think that’s a really unique use case. So yeah, some

uses are better than others, but I tend to agree with you on the whole at least the communication front.

Yeah. And we’ve done deals that we weren’t the highest offer. We have plenty of customers that have done deals

and they weren’t the highest offer, but it was that human connection that went out for them that and the and the seller really chose them over anything else

because they trusted them in that way. And in the end, like we want to help you guys build trust more efficiently,

effectively with more people, but also enable you for success. That completely remove you from the equation.

Matt, you might have convinced me to rejoin all this talk, all the features you guys got rolling out. I was always

impressed with the product. Really impressed with the team and the way you guys pour back into your community and empower investors with education. And I

really appreciate you taking the time to come on the show. If people want to learn more about you as an investor or

more about Deal Machine and how they can get signed up, where can they find you? Yeah, we have obviously dealmachine.com

is a resource where you’ve got everything you can learn from how to how to anal find the deal, get in touch with

the seller, analyze the deal. We have tools to help you with all those things. We have a 7-day free trial there to

include and I can send over a little link for you to Aaron that would include some marketing bonuses for people as

well that you wouldn’t just get going through our website. It’ll give you some free calling minutes. It’ll give you free postcards to be able to send out.

So, want to make sure I can hook up your audience as well and just give you a little marketing boost to get out there and start you start getting in touch

with motivated sellers in your market. And then you have me as a resource as well. We our office hours are

dealachine.com hours. Jump on those. Aaron, feel free to include I’ll even give contact info

in the the description here as well. So, you can have people have me as a resource. So, we want to be here to

enable your guys success and, you know, go out there and love to see you on our Wednesday master classes as well.

Awesome. I’ll make sure all that is included in the show notes and hopefully we’ll be having you back on again soon.

Yeah, appreciate the invite, Aaron. This was great. Awesome. Take care. Thanks.

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