there’s this huge thing around what wealthy people do in terms of their mindset versus what most people do

a lot of people think that when they get into stuff like real estate that they have to go out and do everything themselves and that this kind of passive

income there’s really no such thing as passive income because no one cares about your money the way you do unless

you learn how to make money while you sleep you’re working until you die business is all about who do you like

working with and get into the circle and rooms with potential mentors and people ahead of you almost every successful

person I know has imposttor syndrome at some level which is just like who am I to be successful and show up in this

room full of amazing people so I think it’s just being willing to put ourselves in a place where we feel a little bit uncomfortable it’s just amazing what

happens when you allow yourself to see yourself not just who you are but the 10x version of yourself

[Music] performing welcome back to the Hybrid Real Estate

Professional Podcast the show where we dive into how professionals are building wealth through real estate and entrepreneurship without blowing up

their lives in the process i’m your host Aaron Amin and today’s guest is Bronson Hill founder of Bronson Equity and host

of the Mailbox Money Show he’s one of the leading voices on wealth mindset and passive investing he’s also a general

partner in over 200 multif family units worth more than $250 million and he’s personally raised over $50 million for

private equity and real estate deals he’s the author of the bestselling book Fire Yourself and has a new book coming

soon called Rich Brain based on interviews with over 2500 millionaires if you’re trying to understand how the

wealthy think how they structure their investments and how to get started in real estate without becoming a landlord

this conversation will hit home well let’s get into it welcome to the show Bronson good to have you Aaron happy to

be here man excited to chat with you you know I’m selfishly I’m very interested in learning what you picked up from 2500

different conversations with millionaires because I I’ve got to imagine there’s some common threads there so maybe let’s start with the

current and talk about some of the inspiration behind your upcoming release yeah yeah so my first book uh Fire

Yourself was about passive income how to replace your working income with passive income in three years or less so in the process of raising $50 million which is

hard to believe it’s just you know one foot in front of the other it ends up growing over time and been able to help a lot of people which is great and um

but you know just this there’s this huge thing around what wealthy people do in terms of their mindset versus what most

people do um and you know again a lot of people think that having written goals or doing affirmations or uh really

spending time with mindset or personal development work is really weird and it is weird because most people don’t do it

but the type of weird people that do it are the wealthiest people right so if people that are wealthy do it it doesn’t

matter if it’s weird or not it’s it’s it’s important to look into so I think that um one of the biggest concepts I

found in these interviews is something I call wealthworthiness so what example of this is like a lot of times people will

have an idea of what they they don’t say it but they’ll have this subconscious like limit that they feel like okay I’m

worthy of $100,000 or I’m worthy of a million dollar so somebody who makes $100,000 a year will typically make

$100,000 a year and maybe they’ll take they’ll stay about there or they’ll take incremental jumps up okay go from 100 to

110,000 125 and they kind of make little jumps up over the year um I had a jump from uh making I was making about

$200,000 in my medical sales job to basically I about 20x my net worth 20

25x my net worth over four years to multiple seven figures about $4 million and it happened through just seeing

myself a bit differently and now we can get into that i’m happy to share more how that applies to life but there’s a

lot around that topic that’s I find very interesting yeah absolutely i agreed we

we’ll circle back to that but maybe we rewind a bit and talk about how you kind of got into this space in the first

place so you mentioned just a second ago med medical sales was it med um was that

a previous like kind of W2 chapter yeah yes so I wor for 10 years i did medical device sales and I started doing

physical therapy devices toward the end of my career um I was working in heart surgical sales so I was basically going

in wearing scrubs going into surgery and advising physicians on how to use their heart surgical devices now

intellectually very interesting it was cutting edge stuff it’s really amazing all the things that are happening in heart surgical the heart surgical space

but I think one of the reasons I wanted to shift is I I didn’t you I wanted financial freedom but for me it was

really about time freedom so most people will say hey I want financial freedom i want financial freedom and it’s like well what do you really want i mean

that’s just more money but for me I wanted more time so you always make more money you can’t make more time so here I was making about $200,000 a year was

working 30-ish hours a week i worked with a couple physicians though and they were um they were they made over $2

million a year each and they were working like 60 to 80 hours a week every week and I just I saw them and I didn’t

really think that they had financial freedom right they had money coming in but they didn’t have time to be able to

enjoy it and if you live in the US like we just take fewer days off for vacation than most the rest of the world and so I

think in some ways we have it quite a bit wrong so I started to realize like is there are there ways that I can grow my wealth without taking up more of my

time uh for me I didn’t have really a lot of money at the time so I started to really learn i found a mentor and and

basically said why don’t you start raising capital for real estate and I thought well raising capital how do you do that and it’s like I didn’t realize

with my sales background that could actually be a good fit started a local meetup in Los Angeles or Pasadena California here found my first investor

raised $100,000 for one deal and then through some partnerships and a lot of I can get into that story kind of what

exactly happened but um just been able to help people and and started doing bigger deals more partners more

investors creating content you know going on interviews and just telling the story of hey what does it look like to

actually be someone that can help people grow their wealth and actually grow my wealth that way as well i love it yeah

the capital raising is kind of an enabler role if you will right you’re connecting people who have capital that

want to invest and get returns maybe they don’t want to have an active role themselves but they want exposure to

different types of opportunities in which you can get in the public markets and you’re facilitating that and putting

them kind of acting as a bridge between them and the operators or sponsors uh

which means I’m sure that you built a a big rolodex on both sides so you got to know a lot of great operators and then

also build a rolodex of investors which is um you know kind of a unique skill

that I don’t think everyone realizes that that’s even an option a lot of people think that when they get into stuff like real estate that they have to

go out and do everything themselves and that this kind of passive income I’m actually very hesitant to use the word

passive when I talk about anything other than investing as an LP because I think it’s misleading the majority of my

episodes and the majority of my real estate background was in rental properties and so I I I shy away from

the P word but in this context I think I think it does apply can you talk about kind of so you mentioned you worked with

a mentor um to get into this space like how did you find that person and and what were some of the initial steps that

you took yeah so there’s a saying when the student is ready the teacher appears that’s how it was for me is I was I had

been interested i had uh kind of like you had single family and I I agree with what you said about passive income

there’s really there’s honestly really no such thing as passive income because no one cares about your money the way

you do but there are investments that are more passive so that’s where like investing where you’re an LP that’s

where we have LPs invest with us so the work is on the front end where you vet a deal you vet a team things like that uh but to me similar to you I basically did

some single family i had four single family houses uh you know I told uh this was a relative of mine i just hadn’t

seen them in years and they’re more a distant relative and I had shared um uh hey this is my plan i want to get 30 of

these houses and I want to scale them up and then they just said well that sounds like a lot of work why don’t you do apartments and I said well I don’t have

the money he said well you can raise the money and so we kind of said read this book go to this conference uh you know

listen to this podcast he just gave me some different things to do and so and I knew he was legit because he he wasn’t

trying to sell me anything he was just he was a relative so I was like he’s not trying to he’s just trying to help me out so I realized like for me these days

especially to single family and even a lot of real estate in general is a challenging it’s challenging right now

because cash flow that was there a few years ago is not there now because of higher costs interest rates lots of

different reasons and so and again when I was doing single family it was just me right I was out there it was maybe I had

a real estate agent help me buy stuff and then I had a guy help me fix stuff and then we had a property manager but it was for the most part I was kind of

help I was in even though I wasn’t managing the stuff we had a property manager like I was still getting calls every single week of hey what do we do

here the tenants’s not paying the toilet’s not working the city said they didn’t trim the grass in the yard all

these there was just problems coming up and so um I think what I realized about going with bigger scale so whether

you’re doing it from a capital raising perspective or you’re doing it from a an investor standpoint um when you scale

it’s just way more efficient if you have a hundred houses and those are single family houses to manage that it’s just a

bear because you got to pay way more for the management and then for the managers you know let’s say you got a problem the manager’s got to go take a look then

they’ve got to call the maintenance guy the maintenance guy’s going to run over there go see what it is go to the Home Depot get the part come back you’re

paying them sometimes 40 50 bucks an hour versus when you have a 100 units in one place the property manager is there

every day usually you have one or two full-time maintenance people that are there all the time it’s it’s typically only a certain number like certain

colors of paint you get the same appliances you get the same plumbing this it’s one roof typically so like

it’s just way way more efficient when you have a larger deal and then it allows people actually to be much more

passive right so it’s a different way to think about it but again if you want to as Warren Buffett this is how this all started for me Aaron was Warren

Buffett’s quote unless you learn how to make money while you sleep you work until you die and so Warren I think is

just retiring at age 94 so it’s good for him so but the idea is there is right just being able to not being to not have

to be the one doing the work 100% and yeah there’s economies of scale like you as you were describing that I’m

kind of rolling back in my head you know we bought eight rental properties across three states they’re all different

houses in different areas we have three different teams like you said there there’s basically no built-in

efficiencies we don’t have the same color paint we don’t have the same appliances so it really is like eight

different software programs running in the back of your head even though we mostly at this point have property

managers uh for a while we were self-managing all those I view it as great foundational knowledge and skills

to be able to own and operate single family rentals but you’re right that it does kind of give you the perspective of

man wouldn’t it be nice if there were a few more efficiencies which is something you definitely do get with multif family

and um as a are are most of the deals that you raise money for are they

syndications where the investors truly are not only passive in in reality but

like by law they cannot participate actively in the operations yeah exactly yeah and just to example as well um and

again people do it different ways and I think single family is a great it takes a lot longer i mean you can and you’re growing really equity a lot of times

you’re saying I’m going to grow my equity over time and I I call it the and I talk about this in fire yourself my

book about how passive your investment is so if you can’t 10x the amount of like that you currently have so if you

have eight if you couldn’t very quickly go to 80 without it being another job right then people are like “Oh my gosh my eyes are already bulge out of my head

it’s too much.” Then then it’s not it’s not truly passive versus as an LP it the

the work is on the front end right we’re vetting the team we’re vetting the deal does this fit my goals is this the right

team is this the right project does it get what I want and then people invest and then yeah they’re they’re fully

passive once you invest you send the funds you’re getting updates you can ask questions things like that but you’re

not the one who’s following the management in the work in the deal as well so yeah there’s a they call limited

partner just limited not in terms of ownership but limited terms as far as terms of work or control versus the general partners that are actually

operating it i know the general partners are on the hook that if something goes wrong if there was some material

misrepresentation or mismanagement then there’s some liability there for the general managers as well right so um so

I think that as a limited partner I mean I’m a limited partner in a lot of different you know number of different deals I also invest in the deals that we

do as a general partner I I invest as a limited partner as well and so but I I approach things very much as a limited

partner of like what does this deal look like the group the operator and then as a limited partner you’re not you’re not

the one who’s taking the calls you just simply are getting information and trying to follow what’s happening so I

imagine you spend a lot of time kind of educating limited partners on what to look for so they come to you they work

with you you probably have a pipeline of deals and operators that you know and that you’ve worked with but when you’re

meeting with someone who’s considering investing for the very first time in a passive deal like what you’re talking

about what are some of the things that you share with them to to look out for well I think there’s a few things one I

think before you ask about uh a specific deal it’s really to figure out what your goals are you know a lot of people will

say I’ll ask this question often Aaron I’ll say uh what’s more important to you cash flow or appreciation and having you

know I’ve had thousands of these calls now a lot of people like oh a little bit of both or a little bit of this or that and they don’t really know and I think

for most people it’s actually a lot of cash flow cash flow is what allows you to replace income it’s what allows you to fire yourself even if you’re not

ready to leave your job just knowing that you can you know let’s say you make for me I didn’t have to replace my income my income was you know 200k a

year but if I made uh about five or sixk a month that was enough for me right

that was my rat race number that covered all my living expenses i live simply I travel you know but I also it was I

didn’t need a lot right i needed a certain amount to cover that so for people to figure out what their goals are a lot of people that are making a

lot of money they’ll pay a lot in taxes particularly if you’re professional you’re paying sometimes 30 40 50 plus%

in taxes so those you know there’s tax strategies there’s events like or there’s investments like oil and gas that can help so um but you know

typically how these deals come to us Aaron is we get on people’s deal list they send them to us and it comes uh the deal comes first but really whenever you

get a deal sent to you you need to stop and go back and kind of like it’s like a funnel so the top of the funnel is like hold on like does this meet my goals

like what is the what does this look like and then I always start with there’s kind of three parts to any deal right you have the market that it’s in

you’ve got the operator and you’ve got the deal right but the deal comes first but before you analyze the deal look at the market is the market uh multif

family in Houston Texas so okay is that market shrinking or growing how many units are being added what are what’s

rent doing is this is this an area that we’re seeing growth in development if if rents are projected to go up if there’s

growth in jobs if there’s income growth those kind those are very positive things and if there’s shortage of

housing already then that’s great right if you see all these units coming online there’s high vacancies but maybe not right the market and this exists in uh

businesses how many car washes in a certain area how many businesses we’re buying private businesses so if we’re buying a a business of a certain type of

what is that market specifically look like the second thing once you get through that is who is the operator who’s the person who’s actually doing

this do their values align with you ask questions around I used to think we all wanted the same thing but then I realized some people want to raise money

from investors and they never want to hear from them again right that’s not a good person to invest with if you’re an investor you want to be able to reach

out and find a person so what are their values what’s their experience is this deal similar to other deals they’ve done

is this a a self- storage deal and these guys have done 2,000 multif family units

well that’s a different type of deal what makes you think they’re going to be successful in this new asset class right so you got to ask those questions and

see are they a fit from their character their values their track record and what the deal actually is and does the deal

itself help you meet your specific goals does it provide cash flow does it provide appreciation tax benefits what

are the things it provides so I think those are kind of the three-step process process I find I I provide in my book

just to help people to try to figure out is this a good deal for me yeah that’s really smart and that’s something too

that I come across when I work with new investors in a totally different context usually it’s teaching them to start their rental portfolio but similar

conversation where they start asking about the metrics and and quantifying things before they’ve even told me what

their end goal is are you trying to retire earlier are you trying to replace your spouse’s income are you trying to

just build as much wealth on paper as you possibly can over the next 10 years they’re completely different paths and

you’re going to target a different type of property and probably a different market depending on the answer to that so I I I love that and then there’s also

the multi-dimensional thing that you’re talking about where you you have the jockey and you have the horse right and um and sometimes you

want both of them to be good but a a bad operator can screw up a good deal and

vice versa even the best operator in the world can’t put you know lipstick on a pig if if the deal doesn’t have any uh

true any merit to it so that’s great so then on the first book fire yourself

what’s the underlying framework is the idea about using passive income to replace your W2 income or what’s what’s

that all about yeah yeah so fire yourself really it’s about having the freedom you know a lot of people are

like “Well I love my job or I have my business or whatever.” And I think well what happens if God forbid something happens to you or become disabled or

your family member becomes or you have a child that needs something or something happens or you just decide you don’t want to do it anymore you need So a lot

of times we don’t realize how dependent we are on a job on a business on just having to go to work and the problem is

even if you have you know money even if you’ve got a million two million five million in net worth how are you going to generate cash flow or how are you

going to live once you retire stocks don’t provide it there’s too much volatility i get into there’s a whole chapter i was a former registered

investment advisor and just all the hidden fees it typically uh they say it’s 1.2% but after hidden fees it

brings it about 3.2% per per mutual fund or a lot of ETFs or mostly mutual funds

and then if you have a money person it’s about another 2% fees on top of that so that’s five five and a half% just in

fees and the average returns are only uh around 6 to 9% per year depending on years you look and there’s some valid

volatility errors there as well so so I think that for most people it is really important to try to make a plan to as

Warren Buff would say make money while you sleep and so if you’re if you don’t know how to do it it’s okay and I remember saying I’m not quite sure how

I’m going to leave my job but I want to leave my job in three years so I set a goal and I just started learning as much as I I can and big way to learn is to

read books listen to great podcasts like this go to conferences go to local meetups if you’re in a in a larger

mid-size market search online for you know real estate meetup in Houston or in LA or whatever market you’re in there’s

there’s lots of real estate meetups and then go to a conference go to a conference there’s one of the conferences I’m going to this summer

it’s called the Limitless Expo in uh in Dallas a friend of mine Ken Malroy did the forward to my book he hosts it and

it’s awesome so I think getting around people that are doing it it just it kind of makes something that seems a little weird because honestly if you haven’t

heard of syndication if you haven’t invested passively it just kind of sounds a little weird right it’s like just why would I ever give money to

somebody I’ve never met i don’t know that’s weird but then you meet people that have been doing it for 20 years and they’ve got success but um you know that

relationship is really valuable too because then they’ll say hey I’ve invested with these guys it’s gone great

and hey watch out for these guys because you know I didn’t have good performance over here so sharing that information is

really valuable so I think the networking piece is really important and I think the education side of just continuing to learn introduce yourself

to new ideas new books new podcast there’s actually a quote that says you’ll be the same person uh five years

from now except for the books you read and the people that you meet right so what is that that’s that’s the education

and the networking so just who you’re going to meet the partners the opportunities as well as just the learning the books you’re reading the

things you’re listening to they’re super super important when it comes to growing as an investor yeah no I I can

appreciate that perspective i I should have mentioned at the top of the interview I’m a definitely a personal development junkie i’m a big reader i’m

a member of several different groups and I’ve been coached and I also you know offer coaching and so I I really believe

in the power mindset and that’s one of the reasons I love both books the one you’re writing currently and then the

one that you put out that they focus so much on mindset and kind of making yourself better and making yourself more

valuable and being interested and curious and indulging that instead of just diving exclusively into numbers and

spreadsheets there’s a personal element to it as well for yourself and then also um how you approach different

relationships and with that I’m curious if you have a kind of any advice for

people who are not particularly social putting themselves out in these environments uh like you said going to a

conference for the first time and just trying to make good use out of that investment of time and money when it’s

not their natural inclination yeah I honestly I’m more extroverted than introverted and I still feel awkward at

conferences i just think most people feel awkward like it’s just an awkward thing but you realize people go to conferences they’re looking to meet

other people that’s why people go to conferences they want to connect and u especially real estate or other sorts of

things it’s all about collaborating you know a lot of times we think that uh if I do a deal then there’s less or

somebody else does a deal there’s less for me and there’s competition but it really is collaboration like you and I Aaron we might do a deal together right

we hear about something it’s amazing how there’s a lot of collaboration that takes place within investing within real estate within other assets and so um you

know I would say for most people what a lot of people do wrong about networking is that they will go with their agenda

and they’ll say “Oh hey I’ve got this.” Or “Hey here’s my deal.” Or or they’ll or they or they won’t actually connect

but u I really think if you show up and you’re intentional like if I saw you at a conference say “Hey Aaron it’s really

great to meet you i’ve listened to your podcast or I’ve heard tell me what you do.” And then I listen and then I say “Well,” and then as Aeron’s talking I

would basically be listening for what is what is something I can do to help Aaron what can I do to help you is there a

connection that’s here that I maybe I met somebody at this conference that’s like he’s like I’m looking for this kind

of deal i was like “Oh my gosh you got to meet John over there.” And so I go “Hey hold on.” And I go introduce him to John or I think of a book that’s like

“You know what i was exactly there and this book totally helped me with exactly what you’re talking about.” Right so what happens is great networking is

you’re providing value to someone else and then if I make a great connection all of a sudden you’re like you talk to

John and you guys are hitting off you’re going to do the deal together well then that’s huge right because you it’s

almost like like you’re a matchmaker in a way not in a romantic sense but like in the sense of like you you’re putting deals together and you get to be known

as somebody who’s doing that so I love doing that so we have our mastermind that’s called the wealth forum it’s for high net worth investors we do live

events and so people pay you know it’s typically 2 to 10 million net worth sometimes up to 40 50 million and

they’ll just be in the room and share information share ideas we’ll bring in speakers and it’s and it’s it’s just to create that small room where people can

really connect and really kind of be there for each other i really think it’s worth it a lot of people don’t see the value like I could just take money i

could take the money I’d go to one of these things and just invest it in a deal and it’s like well you could but you’ll miss out on the growth right

you’ll miss out on being in the room and you said you’re in several groups and I’m in several groups as well and I run one so I just I think it’s incredibly

valuable and if that’s true you’re the same person except for you know the books you’re reading the people you made

another great quote that I like is you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with so if you

want to grow your wealth you’ve got to be in a room where people are worth 10x or 100x more than you and their

afterthoughts that they share after saying something you’re like “Oh my gosh that’s amazing i need to do that.” So

you’re going to learn so much so yeah I think that’s what I would say about them yeah 100% i think that also follow

through and follow up are huge if you meet somebody especially someone who’s further down the road that you want to

be on and you do happen to get some time with them and they give you a piece of advice or maybe an action item I know a

lot of people that I’ve encountered they’ll tell me like a book to read or they’ll tell me something a nugget that was very impactful and powerful for them

and if I have any possible way to contact them which usually in this day and age you can look people up you can

Instagram DM them maybe they give you their email whatever it is if you’re the person who actually reaches out to them

after the conference after the event whether it’s a couple days later or a week later and you actually respond to

the advice or or whatever action they gave you and say “Hey I read that book i thought it was really poignant what they

said it it reminds me of something you told me at the conference just wanted to let you know.” And don’t even ask anything just like just share that you

did something with that information I’ve found that to be a great way to stand out versus the hundred other people that

shook their hand had nothing really valuable to say to them and then didn’t act on what that person told them i

don’t know if you feel the same way yeah no I think too like it’s interesting about networking and again there’s kind of two people we’re talking one you know

there’s the passive crowd this is more for kind of the active crowd or somebody who’s looking to kind of really grow but one of the ways I’ve really grown my

network and really helped to get around amazing people is I’ve just really tried

to put myself in their shoes and think about what does this person really need if I’m with somebody who manage I know a

couple people that that have over two or three billion in real estate what can I offer to them right well you know maybe could I raise money could I promote

something they’re working on could I have them on on my podcast the Mailbox Money Show could I like what could I do

that would be valuable to them and if I can just simply show up in a way that’s like well how can I give to this person

all these people that are super valuable people they’re um people coming asking for stuff all the time so if you can

show up and instead of like give me giveimme you’re like hey how can I give to you and you give something and maybe it’s even a physical gift you show up

with a gift and say hey I’ve got this for you and so I try to really be generous and just you know try to find

ways to give to people that are way more successful and it doesn’t always open up doors but you know a lot of times it does it really does open up people just

feel this subconscious thing and they feel like they have to pay it back so um and it also I think it’s just a great vibe just a great way to show up that

you’re not somebody who’s just taking you’re somebody who’s giving and and you know there’s I mean business is all about who do you like working with you

know if somebody’s giving gifts or they’re introducing people or they’re promoting someone stuff like that that’s a very likable that makes you very

likable as a person right so it’s a great way to open up doors with people that are much more successful than you

yeah and last question on this topic what would you say to someone who’s new

who feels like they don’t have anything to offer to other people but they’re trying to find ways to add value yeah I

got a friend like this he’s just got a heart of gold just an amazing guy and just love the guy to death but he he

just he doesn’t really see his own worth right he just sees like he just what do I have to offer someone and I think that

a lot of times you don’t always know you don’t always know what you have to offer but I think it’s important to at least think about uh one example of this i I

went on this cruise it was like a you know $6,000 cruise for a week it was a real estate cruise and um you have a lot

of successful people there rich Dad Poor Dad the guy who wrote that robert Kasaki was on the cruise and but there’s a guy who was very successful in multif family

and this is when I had only raised $100,000 for a deal and I was thinking like huh what can I do like there’s this

quote make yourself valuable to valuable people so I was like what can I do to this person how can I help them like is there any way I can help them so then I

like I approached him and I said “Hey man um I was thinking about you.” This is like the second to last day of the care i said thinking about you and I

just was wonder if we could get together a few minutes to talk about your business and there maybe some ways we could collaborate or I could help you and he kind of blew me off but then

later he came okay let’s meet up by the martini bar at this time so we did that and then I said “Well hey how’s it

going?” And like he was somebody who would teach people how to raise capital but I was like “Well how’s it going for

you raising capital a lot of people that they teach is they don’t have time to kind of be doing all that and it turns out they were having some challenges i

didn’t know that but I said “How’s it going there?” And he said “Well you know this is what’s going on.” I said “Well what if I my me or someone else I knew

were come to come on alongside and help you do this?” And he was like “Oh that’d be amazing.” And so that was really what

got me from raising $100,000 to raising $15 million together so a lot of times we just we don’t know and that that but

that would not have happened had I not been curious and asking questions and really just trying to help i really I

had my own thing I was trying to create at the time it wasn’t really going as well as I wanted but I was kind of sad when I left it but I was like well this

is a great opportunity let me pursue this and see where this goes and sure enough it opened up a lot of doors so I

think that um for a lot of us we want a really clear path or what tell me are you A B C and D well it’s like well

you’ve got to be in the room is number one you got to be curious and ask questions and you’ve got to make a connection with that person in their

business that they see value from right because they’re thinking about their business all the time but people don’t

approach successful people like hey how can I sell it’s rare it’s really rare so a lot of and if you just approach say

hey how can I help that’s not a good question you want to be thinking through like what do they actually do what are the ways what are the things that could

be there if you don’t know ask more questions try to learn but like once you kind of have an idea just be willing to

ask what about this if you know are you needing help in this area if you grew this what would happen and that would

open up a lot of doors I think for a lot of people and I think a lot of people especially younger people just don’t realize that that’s a way you get ahead

is you just go in and be very curious and then offer to help in an area that somebody already needs yeah I love that

story one of my mentors named uh Brian Luben I’m in his mastermind called Action Academy amazing yeah I love Brian

he’s been on my show yeah yeah oh awesome yeah he um he talks about you know when you’re trying to meet and get

into the circle and rooms with potential mentors and people ahead of you you either pay to play or seek to serve he

always says that and the paytoplay is just you know some people scoff at that because they think well why do I have to

pay for access to certain individuals or certain conferences or meetings but I mean that’s just that’s just part of the

game and the other thing that I really believe is that if you have paid to be somewhere you are much more likely to

actually put in the effort to get you know value out of it and also bring value um so that’s one other thing so

the seek to serve is the story you just told right where you get very uh strategic and thoughtful about how you

might approach somebody and add value beyond just hey how can I help but that paytoplay element is not one to gloss

over either where you can join a paid mastermind group or you can go to a conference you can uh go to the I want

to hear about this real estate cruise and how I could go to that you go to something like that and you put $6,000

of your own money in you’re going to find a way to get value out of it yeah absolutely it is it’s It’s amazing too

like that real estate cruise that was $6,000 um now it’s more expensive but

like you know if they had charged $1,500 for a week they would have had probably

2,000 people there right but because they charged more money it limits who’s going to be there who’s going to be

there very qualified people either people that are very wealthy where it’s not a big deal spending six seven grand

or it’s people that are just really serious like to me am I making 200k that was still a fair amount of my take-home

money at the end of the year I was like that’s a lot of money but I was like I’m going to make it worth it right and so it’s the same with my group called the

wealth forum it’s high ticket people show up they’re in the room we do once a quarter we do a one day live event and

it’s like we really see a lot of value there people make connections they do deals together and so you know again

when people like when you narrow the room of who’s there uh and this is going to contradict what I said earlier but if

you just go to local meetups only you’ll find a lot of tire kickers but if you go to higher ticket things then you’ll find

people that are really serious go to a conference that’s anybody who goes to a conference like they have you know for example this Limitless Conference

they’ll be in Dallas it’s it’s a you know a,000 to $2,000 to go for the ticket and plus your travel plus your

hotel so everybody there is like really serious or really wealthy or both right they’re there at the event they’re taking their time to do it and so um

you’re just going to find a different caliber of person and so when you’re there and I always say when you go to events try to have some sort of goal in

mind if you can get the list ahead of time who’s going to be there if not who’s the person you’re trying to meet what are your specific goals in your

business so that when you share you can show up and say “Hey I help people find passive cash flow in deals like this.”

Or “I’m looking for a partner that buys businesses.” Whatever the thing you want to try to like introduce yourself in a certain way so that people can oh I just

met a guy who buys businesses over there so when you’re talking to people you’re very clear and it’s okay to show up hey I’m just here to learn and that’s great

but the clearer you can get on that the easier it is for people to want to work with you or to introduce you yeah agreed

and it’s interesting you were talking about the free local meetup versus the paid events and all that i kind of view the free local meetup which I run one in

Houston by the way and I have a lot of fun with it it’s a free thing it’s educational there’s networking but the

stakes are low and that’s intentional it’s meant to provide kind of that mastermind like environment at no cost

but to the point of what we’re both just saying because there’s no buyin people don’t take it as seriously but I view

those place those meetups as an opportunity to practice and refine that 30 secondond pitch we do intros at the

beginning of every one there’s networking breakouts where you go meet people and you do it rather quickly by

design that’s practice right if you flub it or you don’t say something the right way you know you’re not on a microphone

in front of 500 people you’re in a small group or maybe just talking to one other individual and we coach and give each

other feedback on how we can be more clear about our goals or how we can you know advance and and I I do think

there’s a there is a place for all of those different types of events in that ladder of personal development and

networking um I think it’s Yeah it’s cool kind of um hearing you talk about some of these higher ticket items too

yeah it is it is it it sounds kind of weird like I love what you know Brian Lubin super sharp and you either you

know you either pay to play or you seek to serve i think those are great ways to think about it and I think both are very powerful and I do both and it’s just

like should you be a passive investor or should you raise capital or find deals like well maybe you should do both i think you got to figure out really what

fits for you what your goals are and then move towards that yeah and over

time too it naturally helps you level up and feel I think you talked about and I want to circle back to the rich brain

book now but what was it wealthworthiness was that the topic yes yeah wealth worthiness yeah yeah so that

seems to come over time and experience that most people probably aren’t inherently wired to believe that they

deserve any financial success that they find unless they maybe come from extremely you know wealthy uh

inheritance but can you talk more about that concept and then how it kind of relates to everything else that that you

do yeah so it’s interesting you know the narrative around uh wealth is that you

know people in in our culture in our media it’s that people either have money or they don’t there’s the halves and the

have nots and you either have the silver spoon in your mouth and you go trust fund baby or you just don’t have it and you’re be you don’t have you’re never

going to have it but that I mean reality is Fidelity Investments did a study in 2019 and they found that 86%

of millionaires are self-made so that means that almost nine out of 10 did not

inherit their wealth right they learned how to do it these are learnable teachable mindset and habits that people

can do which should be incredibly encouraging anybody listening who didn’t come from wealth I came from very middle class you know my dad was a single dad

and had four kids right there was a lot of stuff to I worked through paper outs bought my own first car and so there’s

things that these are learnable things so I think that when it comes to wealthworthiness and it comes to how do you develop a wealth mindset uh one of

the practices that people do uh that I’ve seen is is you know again how people show up in a room most people

have self-sabotaging habits and beliefs so about 90% either have procrastination

they have negative selft talk other things like that so it it works not just in wealth when it comes to growing

wealth and our worthiness it works in relationships so if I show up at a party and I’m a single guy and and I see a

beautiful woman and I go over to talk to her but on the way over my selft talk is “Oh you’re not good-looking she’s never

going to like you and what do I have to offer?” Right how’s that conversation going to go right it’s probably not even going to happen if it does it’s not

going to go well right because I’ve already kind of self-saboted i already have that negative self-belief and so

there’s a way to change that and it’s to change the way that we actually show up and this exists in business deals as

well uh I’ll give an example of this i’ve been doing a lot of work around mindset the last couple years few years

and I had a business deal come by you know through me just about a year ago a little less than a year ago and it was

it was way bigger than what we normally would do and I I passed on i was like “Oh no it’s no good.” But then I was able to think about it and like you know

I think that really could be amazing it would be it would about 5x our business overnight as far as cash flow as far as

the size everything and so I said “Okay well let’s let’s go for But I think I was able to see it because I was doing

this mindset work and I was able I was expanding becoming this 10x type person that when it came out I was like oh

that’s it now fast forward 7 months later we got through an e-commerce company that ships products out of China

so with all the stuff happen we didn’t end up closing on at least not at this point but I don’t look at it like a a failure i look at it like a success

because I was able to receive that right i was able to we raised $2.5 million for it we were ready to go oh the lender

ended up dropping out because the tariffs and whatever even though sometimes things don’t work out the way you want but you learn and you grow and

now just last Friday so today’s Tuesday you know last Friday we went under uh letter of intent for another business

right that’s a little bit smaller but it’s it’s a phenomenal business we’re getting an amazing deal on it and so again it’s just amazing what happens

when you allow yourself to see yourself not just who you are but the person the

10x version of yourself and you step into that so again people think this is weird but if the type of weird is people

that are worth tens of millions of dollars then maybe we should all become a little weirder to do that we should follow what they’re doing and not just

what the crowd does it’s fascinating that you talk about an example that is so relatable to people which is just

basically feeling not worthy in a normal social situation but what you’re saying is that in talking to all these other

people who have a lot of success they have dealt with and figured out how to combat that in their own lives in

business in life etc and that’s one of the more common traits right is the ability to assign yourself at least

enough worthiness to feel like you belong in an opportunity and so it’s

just it’s interesting that that is not just something that beginners deal with it sounds like it’s something that people deal with at every level of life

and business yeah almost every successful person I know has imposttor syndrome at some level which is just

like who am I to be successful and show up in this room full of amazing people and and most people unless you’re a

total narcissist like everybody’s had that because you show up in a room full of peers and it’s like if you’re not you

know in a room where people are amazing then if you’re in a pe a room with amazing people you’re going to feel that

and so it’s okay to show up and be curious and be open and realize hey there’s something here and it’s good

that I’m in a room where people are way ahead of where I’m at and that’s okay and so I think it’s just being willing

to put ourselves in a place where we feel a little bit uncomfortable and realize like I have my unique gifts somebody else has their unique gifts and

I’m growing i’m in process and it’s and it’s good so I think that’s a very normal thing yeah absolutely so you

mentioned that you invest not only in real estate but you now look at different types of private equity oil

and gas small businesses when you have an investor who comes in with this kind of preconceived notion that real estate

has all the benefits that we always hear people talk about but then you also want to maybe uh present an opportunity like

the business that you’re about to go under contract with like h how do you educate people and get them to kind of

um consider different asset classes is it mostly around their goals or is there some other dimension to that yeah well

it’s interesting as an investor a lot of people I call them you know we’re like a onetrick pony right i do single family i

do multif family i do self- storage i do whatever and it’s like we just think well that’s what I do well in my opinion

there are times where it’s a great time to be a multif family investor or to be

a self-s storage investor or to invest in precious metals or oil and gas or other things so as an investor I think

you should look at yourself that I’m an investor i can invest in anything that makes sense to me right in my book I

talk a bit about this how do you analyze assets of of different classes that you’re not really normally used to like

you haven’t invested in before how do you get comfortable with that and so I think really it comes down to three things like your when it comes to your

goals like what are your goals i think cash flow is number one because I mean I know a guy that’s worth over $500 million he loves cash flow right because

you can just live off the profits of his money he has he’s able it’s very safe it’s a very easy kind of way to do it he

does invest in debts he even provides loans to businesses and things like that i know people and even people that are

trying to quit their job you know that the cash flow will help them to be able to do that and then you have long-term appreciation which means hey I I want to

make a lot of money someday or I’ve got some things got a couple deals right now that if they hit their they’re a 10x plus 10x 100x type return you know

there’s a chance it goes to zero because it’s a much higher potential return but those are different types of deals or it’s like hey this is we’re expecting a

a 2x in 5 years with most of the money in the back end right so that’s a different type of deal then you’ve got the tax benefit so I think it’s trying

to figure out what really your goals are and so to me right now I think the thing that lacks in real estate from new deals

specifically are cash flow so anybody wants cash flow there’s only a couple a few things I just wrote a report on this

i’m happy to share it uh with your audience too for free if you guys like but few things uh one is uh buying

private businesses so if you look at real estate uh multif family real estate typically has a cap rate of four five

six which kind of means for those that aren’t familiar it’s like if you paid cash for something what would the returns be per year in cash so if you’re

getting 4% 5% 6% something like that that’s a pretty decent deal well some of these private businesses they’re selling

for three times profit which ends up being like a 30 to 35 cap rate right so the cash flow is just crazy higher 5 6 7

8 10 times more so those are great deals right because they just bring so much cash back you know there’s risk there’s things involved you got to understand

those um and then so we love that we love oil and gas because those cash flow very quickly oil and gas drilling or we

also do one where we own land where there’s oil and gas drilling on it’s much more stable provides cash flow and there’s some upside there as well and

then we do uh we like real estate debt funds so instead of being on the equity side where we’re buying the property

we’d rather uh own the debt and be the bank right we’d rather say for low loan to values of 50% so somebody brings 2

million at closing we bring the other 2 million and then they buy some small commercial building and then if they don’t pay we take over and it’s

diversified across a pool of other first position notes so those are a few things that we love when it comes to cash flow but I’m just such a big cash flow guy

because I think that that’s really what allows investments to be safer you get your money back sooner which means it

lowers your bases as your money’s coming back over time and also it provides you the ability to live off of the cash flow

yeah no that’s fascinating because there’s so many different ways to get it and as you said it’s hard to be an

expert in multiple things but it sounds like from what you know this conversation and just what you specialize in in general you think about

things through some general lenses like you said the market for the opportunity the operator itself themsself and the

deal itself and then from there you educate yourself you apply some of the frameworks you have around money

people’s goals uh their experience and then you can kind of drill down and figure out if if it’s the right type of

opportunity for you and your investors so I imagine a lot of what you do is educate people on how to think just like

that which I imagine is part of why you wrote your books and I I saw as well that you you put out a lot of content uh

educational content so um I guess you know kind of rolling through the final

stage here what is the best way for people to find you and learn more about what you do and get in touch if they um

if they want to yeah thanks i appreciate you having me today so I a few weeks ago I created this that includes my my three

favorite cash flowing investments today and it’s called the mailbox money blueprint so if you want to get that for

free you can text the word cash flow just all one word cash flow to uh the

number 33777 so if you text the word cash flow one word to 33777 we’ll send

that to you we’ll ask for email and you can hear about our future offerings and things like that but it just gets into why I think cash flow is important and

what are some of the current opportunities mid 2025 that could be really beneficial for you i love that

and you also have a great podcast the Mailbox Money Podcast uh so we’ll make sure to include the information you just

shared and then links to where they can people can find you but I really enjoyed having you on i hope we can do it again

sometime and um and yeah thanks again thanks so much appreciate it it was great being here brother thank you for

making it to the end of today’s episode as you may know podcasts are very difficult to grow organically if you’re

getting value from today’s episode I’d deeply appreciate if you could take 30 seconds to leave my show a fivestar

rating and review this will go a long way to helping me reach more listeners just like you thank you so much in

advance